General: angie's list?

Below are a few excerpts that I copied from angieslist.com:

"Companies don't pay to be on Angie's List. A contractor goes on the list only after a member submits an Angie's List report on their service experience with that contractor."

"Angie's List is supported by the members who use it, to ensure that the ratings remain honest and unbiased."

  WHAT A CROCK!!  There magazine is filled with advertisements from local contractors... many of whom have gotten bad reviews!!

So if somebody were to start a service like this that they would fix all the problems that are inherent with Angie's List - what would that perfect service be?

How would you expect to find the service contractors and how would you expect to know and trust you're picking someone top notch?

DocDoc--

It's interesting that you ask that question since I helped with the ethnography for the ServiceMagic site (although they didn't take all of our advice, sigh.)

I don't think the issues in the contractor and client system (poor communication, mismatched expectations, unclear about options, etc.) can be solved by a referral service, especially since those are the problems that will lead to inconsistent contractor ratings, even in the absence of tampering with the rating system.

Well, there is also the other issue that is a roadblock for referral services.  A lot of folks who know of excellent plumbers, electricians, etc. guard that information more carefully than they guard their bank accounts.

It isn't uncommon to ask a homeowner, "Wow!  can I have the name of the guy who did your bathroom?" and be told no.  This is especially prevelent for service people instead of one time project contractors...plumbers, electricians, appliance repair people, and so on. 

So the truly spectacular plumber or carpenter or electrician may never show up on an Angie's List or referral service or an advertisement (because they don't have to advertise.  They have more than enough work through word-of-mouth referrals.)

These workers might also be benefitting from the word-of-mouth network on their end.  The best folks may not want to work for just anyone.  They would prefer to work for a homeowner who will pay them promptly at the end of the project, who will have realistic expectations of what it is like to work with them, and who won't give them any trouble when it comes to project management.  Clients who are referred by other clients potentially gives  them a bit of control over choosing clients and work to be done, as well as a sort of "peer pressure" between clients that a new client should give the contractor the benefit of the doubt if things go wrong.

Just my two cents.

Yep, this weekend an acquaintance was praising her plumber to the heavens.  On and on and on.  He sounded fantastic so I asked for his contact information.  I got a one word answer, "No."  She doesn't want him to get  too busy to come to her house and fix things (?)

I thought she was kidding.  She wasn't.

I've also encountered this with names of electricians, handymen, appliance repair people and independent woodworkers.  Sad, but true.

I've only had 1-2 contractors that I truly wanted to kick in the shins and I found them in the yellow pages. I have a couple of REALLY good folks and then used them to get referrals to others. The guy who just refinished my floors (he did a GREAT job) was referred to me by the handyman I use. The floor refinisher has referred me to a carpenter who helped him (the refinisher) on a bunch of projects in his period home. I'm hoping to meet wit the carpenter in a couple of weeks. I guess I'm workin' the contractor circuit? LOL

Alright, this doesn't really have anything to do with Angie's list.  I just read this article, and it made me think of this thread and the horrors of having strange people working in your house. 

http://tinyurl.com/ytvd9f

It seems that there is a lot of misinformation about Angie's List.  I have had experience with the company for years, so maybe I can help to clear up the confusion.  Angie's List does not allow contractors on their List, unless they have been rated by a member.  Once a contractor is listed, "A " or "B" rated companies can then advertise.  This has nothing to do with ratings. 

It is also important to note that just because a company has been rated on Angie's List, that does not mean that they are a good company.  When I pull up Plumbers, and see that there are 10 pages of companies listed, I'm not likely to pick one that has only one or two reports.  even then, I'm going to call at least 3 of them before I make a decision.  This is simple common sense for anyone who uses any referral service.

Angie's List has been a great company for me, and I recommend them to everyone I know.

Following is my email to AL.  After this experience I googled AL and found my suspicions confirmed.  Ahhh, hindsight....

An hour ago I sent them an email requesting a refund.  Waiting to hear.  Will update when I do -



- Barb

Dear Angie,



We are in the midst of remodeling several portions of our home and were quite excited to discover your service.  Last Thursday I signed up for a one year membership and contacted a contractor from your list.  I was very excited because this company had awards and eight times more reviews than the other contractors in the category.  The prices quoted on all of their jobs in the reviews were low.  The quality of the work in the picture appeared impressive. 

I scheduled an appointment for Saturday afternoon.  The company was very pleasant on the phone and the representative who came to our home was also nice.



Angie's List is a great concept, but it's not turning out to be as easy or helpful as I at first believed it would be. 

Reason?  It seems more of a starting point, with lots of investigative work still to be done. Good contractors may not be on the list and bad ones may be. 

The caveat is that I'm still new to this and have only contacted one business. 

I will not, however, even consider using the business I contacted.



Here is my problem.

I understood that the contractors on your list could only be there if one of their clients (nominated them) wrote a review and put them there.  "They cannot buy their way onto the list."

Is this correct?

In a general conversation with this contractor, I was told that you solicited him.  "Angie's List was mostly on the East Coast.  A couple of years ago when they expanded West they (needed a list and) called us and asked if they could list us.  At first I was skeptical, but I finally told them that as long as it was free they could list us.  Our business took off from there." 



Do you solicit businesses?



The story has a ring of truth to it.  If the story is true, it bothers me immensely. 

At least in the beginning, it doesn't appear that this company came to your list from a client. 

Of course.  You need a list to start building a list.  You have to start somewhere to get members so that they can submit reviews.

Angie's List is a business.

However...

It seems that building a list in this way compromises the list's integrity. 

This is not the online Yellow Pages advertising and supporting businesses, but rather a service to help consumers choose a business they can trust.  Right?

How can you build trust on a foundation of deception?



Actually, to take this a step further, what is to prevent someone from getting on the list by writing a review of their business while posing as a client? 

What's to prevent someone from padding their reviews by writing several himself or by soliciting friends or family to do so? 

Checks and balances.  Consumers can post unfavorable reviews...

 but perhaps there is also an easy way around that...

My husband found one company with an unfavorable review and felt strongly that the contractor padded his account with positive letters - I think he said five - to raise his average and counteract the negative report. My husband felt all five letters were written by the same person because all were typed in caps and the language structure was the same.  Is this a possibility?

Could a person join for one month just to submit a review? 

Paying someone $20 (buying them a membership) to submit a favorable review of your company could be very inexpensive advertising.  Even paying lots of people to do that would be cost effective and give a business a huge boost. 

This could be especially true if the business stood out incredibly far ahead of the pack - as the one I chose did.  Subliminal marketing...

I wonder now if the contractors with less reviews might actually be more real. 



I pose these questions because of the quality of work the contractor I contacted showed me. Although the homeowner was very happy, I still wonder if this company may have padded their listing. Perhaps they really do have a huge business going -- and maybe I don't know what a professional remodel should look like. 

Okay. 

I've got it. 

My criteria:  There should be no obvious defects in workmanship and the job should blend well with the house.  It should not stand out as a remodel.



The contractor took us to see a "high-end" ($80,000) kitchen remodel that he had just completed.  He was very proud of the workmanship and the homeowner was also very happy.  I believe she found him on Angie's List and that they did not know each other prior to the project.  He said that she did not submit a review but I'm quite sure it would be favorable if she were to submit one. 

The cost of this remodel was far higher than the (advertised) prices in the reviews that get a subscriber's attention to call the company. Marketing. I'm just making a point.  This is not a money issue for me.                                   



I'm not an expert, so some of the things that I didn't care for may not really be a problem.  Maybe just personal taste...



However, there were two things I noticed that I really believe were wrong... 



After we returned home, I asked the contractor about the location of the seams in the granite counter top.  I told him that I would prefer the seams in my counter to be located near the corner of the L. 

He was quite adamant that these things were done properly and skillfully and that my opinion was wrong.

 

This contractor made the granite seam straight through the center of the sink! 



Not only was that the focal point of the kitchen, but it was also the narrowest and weakest part of the entire slab.  The seam was wider than usual and the filler color made the joint obvious.  I could also see the joint seam along the front edge of the bull nose from several feet away. The contractor told me that the bull nose seam is always visible regardless of who does the work.  That is not true.  This homeowner got shoddy workmanship on a very expensive part of her kitchen.



The cabinets were "custom", but the upper cabinets on the sink side looked more like random pieces that would work.  They were probably made for that kitchen and maybe the designer just wanted a lot of space around them.  The staining on the cabinets didn't look professional to me; I also had some issues with the tile work and edge pieces on the back splashes.  The kitchen was not large and it did not have a huge number of cabinets.  I think they overpaid for what they received, but I really don't know.



So...what do I want?

Answers -- and some reassurance that the list is valid and my experiences should improve. 

Maybe, since Angie's List depends on feedback, you might find my experience yesterday helpful. I did not (and will not) use this contractor, but I don't care to leave negative feedback about work that someone is proud of and the homeowner is happy with.  I wonder how many others out there might feel the same way?



Sincerely,

I just tried zmobs, and I don't get the value.   It's just classified ads.    Besides being very, very few actual listings (forgivable for any service still in beta) if I'm a seller of goods or services, why would I want to limit my market to just the people I know and the people they know?  If I'm a buyer, why would anyone get on this site to recommend sellers?  Seems kind of worthless to me considering one can use Craigslist and Ebay.  

My Rating:   1/2 star out of 5.   Don't bother.

It's funny that people like Jane rely on lies an inuendo to spread their psychosis.

Everything I posted can easily be verified, and as for slander or liable (I'm sure Jane doesn't even know the definitions, let alone the legal ramifications).  No one has ever been succesfully sued for posting comments on Angie's List.

How sad that vindictive, mentally ill people are allowed access to the internet, so they can damage good people doing good work.

-zz

OK, I'd really like this thread to focus on discussing the topic and not on personal comments.  I try not to delete comments or close threads but I'm afraid I would if this continues--it creates a negative focus and tone within the overall community.

Thanks,

Aaron, co-founder of Houseblogs.net

None of the above comments seem to echo my problem  with Angie's list.   I joined Angie's list with a one year free membership, but will not be renewing as a paid member.    I had the following problems.

 1.   For most businesses/contractors there were not a lot of reviews.     It often showed a business as having more reviews than it actually did.   It might say there were 4 reviews and when I clicked on each one they were the exact same write-up.   This is just plain bad site organization and was an annoyance

 2.  Many categories did not have more than one or two choices.  This may be a function of city size.  I live in Austin TX.  Maybe it isn't large enough to obtain the critical mass for this service to work

3.  For the most part the reviews just were not very informative.    Since I never submitted a review, I am not sure what the rules are exactly.   But they seemed to be written as though the reviewer was only allowed a couple of sentences.   So mostly they were of the type of "these guys rock".  but not any useful example of what makes them good.     In general when I read reviews on other forums, they are pretty much free form and essentially as long or short as the reviewer chooses.    This is what I find useful.  In that format, I find a lot of review innocuous, but there are always some that I can tell I can trust and some who are clearly shillsl.   Its pretty hard to fake a convincing good review when you give specifics.     I don't believe I ever saw one review on Angie's list that I read and thought,   "ok these guys really sound good" since there was just never enough detail to support that.

4.  That said, the one company I did hire as a result of the list, a garage door company,   I did have a positive experience.

5.   The other thing was I always felt my privacy was violated.   Sometimes I would look up businesses that I knew just to get a feel for whether the reviews would be consistent with my experience.   It felt kind of creepy getting an email a few days later listing all the searchs and businesses I had looked up.

Hi --

This is Jeannie, co-founder of Houseblogs.net.  Please keep comments in this thread to specific answers to the original question:

Have you had good/bad/any experiences with Angie's List as a service?

Please do not post attacks, speculation or rumor. 

We rarely close or edit threads (except for obvious spam or self-promotion), but I believe that some of the posts in this thread are not answering the question and, therefore, are not helpful.

Thank you.

jm

I have a personal experience with Angie's List.  I find it worthless piece of trash.  All the contractors in Angie's List have their friends sign-in and write glowing remarks.  It is always better to hire a reputable comapny which are bonded and insured.  Write your contract specifically for the work you want to get it done and when you want to get it done.  I have 100% satisifaction with the name brand companies but Angie's list is not an anwer to your questions.  How many people try to cut corner and  hire the cheapest company and if their work goes well they are happy otherwise they will write remarks to ruin their business.  But remember they have 100's of happy customers also.  One bad remark doesn't make or break the company.

I think internet and bit of knowledge of building Web Sites .. People have tried to milk the public for the information.  If Angie's List really cared for you then they will not be charging you a penny and wouldn't be teaming-up with businesses to give them free coupons to drum-up their business.

Don't waste your money... refer your friends and there are numerous sites which give you free reivew on local business. 

As a contractor I would like to add to this discussion regarding Angie's List.  We in fact were solicited by them a couple of years ago.  They were selling advertising and we chose to purchase their service(s). 

Before I get in too deep a quick background on us - we ARE reputable, coming from me that doesn't mean much and that's fine.  Our company installed thousands of furnaces, air conditioners and other HVAC equipment in the South Minneapolis area over a span of about 10 years through the M.A.C. (Metropolitan Airport Comission).  We weren't allowed to advertise to those homeowners but we were able to distribute comment cards with ratings, which we did.  The feedback we received was vastly positive along with some homeowners who were not thrilled down to those who were downright unhappy with our services.  The homeowners were not allowed to pick us, the general contractors did - but all in all we did a bang up job or they wouldn't continue using us.  We are rarely the lowest bid and we're rarely the highest.  A family owned company, union workers, licensed, bonded, insured and have been in business for 25 years.  As a quick background on us I think that speaks for itself.

Basically Angie's List did not provide enough revenue or interest for what we were paying and we opted to stop advertising with Angie's List.  At that time our value to them decreased and our negative ratings basically started increasing.  However the people rating our company were mainly people who sought our services and opted to go with a cheaper company.  That in itself is a thorn in the side, to actually have public postings of people who rate your company an "F" based on the fact that you were not cheap enough in their eyes.  I am fine with that, pick the cheaper company and be done.  I fail to seee how NOT having work done by someone based mainly on their price is a reason to rate them poorly. 

Recently we received an "F" rating from a customer who we performed an electrical service call for (yes we do electrical as well as plumbing and HVAC).  We never contracted to work for this person, he had a ventilation fan installed through the above mentioned MAC program.  This work was performed at zero cost to homeowners over the past decade, due to airport noise.  Mind you it was free to begin with, not the point I know.  In any case he was having problems with the control switch for the fan and contacted us.  The switches are honestly not so great and the company who manufacters them (Airetrak by Tamarac) basically doesn't stand behind them.  They will tell a homeowner with an issue that the contractor must have installed it incorrectly (it's 3 wires - same as a light switch essentially, we know how to install these) and tell complaining contractors that they have not experienced problems with the switces (untrue).  This particular customer did not wat us to perform a service call or to purchase the switch from us.  He opted to buy one and install it himself, which is fine.  However the switch failed 8 days later (according to his post) and he called us again.  The end result was a service call in which we installed yet another switch; he wanted a new fan installed at no cost to him (the fans have a 5yr. warranty and he is in the 4th yr.).  We told him the fan was not the problem, checked amp draws etc.  The fan is not the issue it is the switch.  Essentially he is still having issues but is not willing to pay for our services - while I understand where he is coming from, we aren't a charity and we warranty our labor for one year from install date.  Clearly out of that and uninterested in paying for service he chose to take the matter into his own hands and essentially put himself in a bit of a tough spot.  Unhappy the issue wasn't resolved to his satisfaction he opted to post a negative rating on Angie's List.  Fine again, however he chose to add a thing or two which in fact was not truth but what I deem lies on his part.  He posted charges that we did not charge to him (the cost of the switches he purchased - and not from us) as well as that our company does not stand behind it's warranty.  The fan carries a 5 yr. warranty through Panasonic, not through us.  We installed it and it worked for 4 years without fault.  At this point a company has to step back and say  that it clearly is not due to faulty installation. 

I contacted Angie's List in regards to flawed information.  Since we no longer advertise with them we really have no value in their eyes.  So the respose I received was to post a response.  I replied back to them saying I did not wish to post a response calling this customer a liar, even though that is what he was doing.  I will post a response and it will focus more on how Angie's List opts to deal with disputes, they don't... not on our end of things since we are no longer paying customers.  As you can probably figure from the length of my post I am more than aggitated and really annoyed by this experience.  At this point we're going to persue this issue and will not stop until it is resolved to our satisfaction. 

The simple fact of the matter is that there are a lot of shady, trashy, unqualified contractors out there and they give us all a bad name.  We would like nothing more than for those people to be stopped and go bankrupt for good.  Until that day, we have the responsibility to be our best and give our customers a taste of what a good contractor does.  For companies like ours, (25 people including install.ers and service men) we have to fight tooth and nail.  Not only is this a bad time for the housing industry, but the economy is unstable to boot.  It's downright wrong that a company who says it works for the best interest of it's customers can do what Angie's List does.

If anyone did bother to read this post, thanks for reading and I eagerly await a response/opinion

Thanks for sharing your experience(s) Giezel.  We're currently working to attempt to resolve the issue with our particular customer.  It's really a futile effort in any case but at least I'm attempting to resolve it so that my company doesn't have such a ludicrous review posted.

Here's a little tip/insight as to how Angie's List does work.  I've been in contact with them in an effort to resolve the issue.  First I received a phone call... basically questioning my initial email to them.  Essentially what happened was that they got it mixed up and suggested that I made a statement saying I had no record of this "problem" customer.  I was really shocked to hear that, I replied that was not the case and my dispute was with the inaccurate information that was posted.  In an effort to resolve the issue they sent him an email requesting his information and stating that our company denied ever doing work for him.  Yes, I'm being serious.  A call was made to him later that day by an Angie's List rep and she had a conversation with him stating that there was an error and to disregard the email.  Well that didn't happen, apparently he held on to that and made a phone call to me - several in fact.  Once we were able to connect over the phone he was pretty ticked off and quite rude.  Understandable if you consider he thought we denied doing the work period.  I told him that wasn't the case, requested he forward me the email etc.  He did so, I called Angie's List the next day and got another puzzling story.  The rep I had been speaking to told me about her conversation with him, that she stated there was a mix up etc.

So not only am I dealing with a customer who apparently likes to bend or twist the truth, attempt to manipulate me/us but I'm not dealing with people who aren't careful enough to make sure what they're doing is correct the first time around.  People all make mistakes, but when dealing with people who feel they've been cheated somehow, I think there ought to be some tact taken to ensure the situation isn't made any worse. 

That's my little follow up.  So back to work I go tomorrow to attempt to satisfy a customer I truly do not feel has been wronged, in an effort to clear false commentary simply so that we don't appear crooked.  The time and effort spent on this particular issue has been insane and the toughest part about it is that I've had little option.  My choice is either let the comments stand and have the company look horrible, or devote more resources to an fruitless effort just to remove a single confused consumer's "feelings".